All posts by JoxFox2109

I know that dude. My question was, how you can separate that. Like how do you know if they really know the difference between right and wrong and when not?

To what of the two questions is this answer for?

But why is personality and/or sadism showing proof for knowing what right and wrong is? Couldn't it be also something like that they just feel sadism without knowing that it is wrong to do heinous stuff?

And what about when one part is portraying a tragic motivation and shows sympathy but then other parts don't? The same thing?

What I still question is, what counts as a motivation exactly? And what if the character re-appears in sequels and is not motivated by his/her past anymore or has different plans and goals?

Since another person on here did it as well, I wanted to ask you if some of my villains would then count as tragic where I was not sure. Am I free to ask?

For example, I have a galactic tyrant that witnessed his entire planet, including his family, getting eliminated in a war, what twisted him completely. He has a deep hatred for war and violence, but uses war and violence to prevent it from happening. I know confusing and hypocritical. But his goal and reason behind it is that he wants to kill all life in the universe so there would be no one left to start a war and wants to rebuilt every life, to create a civilisation which in his mind isn't going to suffer war and violence anymore. In a alternate reality where we see him succeeding in his plans, we are shown with a future were the entire universe is ruled by him and the civilisation consists out of a new species that is constantly controlled by him and stripped from free will, so there isn't a chance that a war will break out ever (at least in his mind, it of course could always happen). So Tragic or Fake Tragic?

Ohh damn I'm sorry. I misread it. My brain is still too tired right now lmao

Btw now I also understand why Dabi is counting as tragic even tho he killed so many innocent people that had nothing to do with it. But it was motivated by his past to get back on this dad and inflict as much pain into him as possible.

However, we should then also change some reasons on this wiki here why a PE villain is fake tragic. Like for example the "it's no excuse because he/she kills people who had nothing to do with their tragedy" thing.

Ohh now I get it!!

Thanks for making such a clarifying and laborious post. I also had some misconceptions on this category, because I thought for example that the tragic villains always have to be portrayed in a way that they can't go too far. Now I understand it better thanks to you.

But there is one thing that always bothers me and that is Black Manta from the DCEU. No way this dude can count as tragic because he was always evil, thus is responsible what happened to him or his allies, even if motivated by his tragedy. He is very similar and comparable to Kingpin from Into the Spiderverse, which you also listed here in your explaination.

Or do I understand something wrong?

Because I'm so confused right now...

No offense, but I don't get it. The rules are always changed and it gets more and more complicated than it actually should be.

@StockingFan15 The problem I have with that is that hate sinks aren't supposed to have any coolness or entertaining on them. They are simply just there to be hated. And many villains, I would even say nearly all, are sadistic and merciless (best example is Michael Myers), so are they all hate sinks? No, definitely not.

So yeah, tbh there are so much weird cases of characters being listed as hate sinks, where I don't get how people come with this thought from.

Eww damn....

@Papermania I agree mostly, but like I said, there still are some characters that are said who are made by the creators to hate on purpose, like Shou Tucker, Agent Orange, Lotso etc.

Not homicidal? There are many villains under that category who attempt homicide.

Yeah but I mean villains like King Boo. He never killed anyone and isn't under the category just because he attempts omnicide. But why if he never succeeds in it?

And also, not every villain would be under there. There are not many villains who try to commit genocide or omnicide and haven't killed anyone before.