Joker (Arkhamverse)

No one denies that the purpose of PEs is to be the worst of the worst and generally unsypathetic, BUT if you think about it that way, then “unsympathetic” is a rather subjective thing. So we still get sad when some cool characters go, even the worst of the worst. So, name the PEs that upset you because their story ending. This can happen for several reasons:

1) PE's death was horrific and pathetic and perhaps sad enough to make you feel sorry for them (like, for example, Father from FMAB or Joker from Arkhamverse)

2) He was just a cool character (maybe your favorite) and you're upset that he won't be a part of the story anymore (Killgrave from Jessica Jones).

My example: I started watching/reading Jujutsu Kaisen solely for Mahito and after he left I'm not that interested in the story anymore. Honestly, I'm waiting for epilogue of JJK only because I hope to see the reincarnated Mahito in it.

Hello, and unholy happy New Year. I'm trying to come up with my own original PE character for a book series I'm doing, his name is Zatiko, the Avatar of Evil and Hate. He's an unfathomably evil and ancient deity who lives for spreading evil, hate, and madness throughout the Omniverse, and his main inspirations are The Joker (Arkhamverse), Emperor Palpatine, Satan (Hazbin Hotel: Journey to the Light), and the Borg Queen. I have a clear cut personality for Zatiko, but I'm in a bit of a pickle because I want to portray him as a vile, sadistic, irredeemable monster, but I don't want him to come off as a try-hard. Any thoughts?

**3. A villain is only nihilistic if they express a point of view or show by their actions that they do not value life nor themselves.**

- KEEP YOURSELF IN AN UNDERGROUND MAZE, ISOLATED FROM ANY TYPE OF HEALTHY SOCIAL INTERACTION, BY YOUR OWN DECISION, IN THE SAME CITY WHERE THE BROTHER YOU ARE TRYING TO ESCAPE IS IN.

- DESTROY AN ENTIRE CITY JUST TO LEAVE IT IN RUINS AND FOR IT TO BE A MEANINGLESS WAR ZONE.

- PUT THE ONE YOU CALL YOUR BEST FRIEND IN MORTAL DANGER, AND THEN TRY TO KILL HIM JUST BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO PLEASE YOU.

- ATTEMPT A POPULICIDE JUST TO ANNOY THE TARGET OF YOUR MEGALOMANIAC AND TWISTED MIND.

- LET YOURSELF STAB SEVERAL TIMES JUST FOR THE DESIRE TO DO THEATRALITY.

- KEEPING YOU "CATATONIC" FOR 10 YEARS WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING AT ALL, WAITING FOR THE ONE YOU LOVE.

- AND WHEN HE COMES BACK, YOU WANT TO KILL HIM, BASICALLY SEEKING TO ELIMINATE THE ONLY THING YOU CLAIM IS RELEVANT IN YOUR LIFE.

The Joker, in all his versions of him, is a monster. Who doesn't care abaout nothing but his own twisted views.

**2. Nihilists are characters who believe that the existence of life has no purposes, values, or meanings, their own included. Nihilists do not believe in moralities and all rules and/or codes they follow are superficial or for practical reasons. They usually do not have specific long–term goals, will sink to all levels of depravity to further their arbitrary objectives, and are often sociopaths and/or suicidal. They can overlap with Social Darwinists and Harbingers for Rebirth as well through shared beliefs in bringing about the "end times" and leaving others or themselves to pick up pieces left behind by the messes they have created.**

Well, if we strictly follow this rule, several Jokers must be eliminated from the nihilistic category, since they do not meet the first criterion:

DC Joker for his desire to be Batman's biggest wound, or in Emperor Joker the way he can't let Batman die because he feels less compared to him, how hard he tries to prove that everyone are to just a bad day of being like him..His great determination to kill Batman in the most epic way possible, and his desire for self-preservation in Batman End Game, to keep himself causing pain and suffer the most time possible.

Arkhamverse Joker setting his sights on creating the most powerful crime syndicate in Gotham, his clear fear of death in Arkham City, to the point of breaking out like a cockroach, and his desire not to be forgotten in Arkham Knight, especially by Batman, being in fact this the reason of his breakdown and desperation.

We also have Jerome, who wanted to be recognized by everyone, making note himself, and maintain his legacy beyond his death. Even to the point of consider himself as an idea, a philosophy.

If this isn't think great of yourself, I don't know what it is.

**1. If a villain seems nihilistic, but at the same time overvalues their own existence, (e.g. Bill Cipher, Dimentio, Evolt, Ivor, Dr. Robotnik, Ginis, Cigarette-Smoking Man, Henry Evans, Sal, Syn Shenron, Pitch Black , Horde Prime (Netflix Reboot), Dan Mandel, Clay Puppington, Lots-o'-Huggin' Bear, the Frowning Friends, the Batman Who Laughs, and Flowey), they do not qualify. Those should go under Cowards, Hypocrites, Egotists, and/or Misanthropes instead. The appropriate term is "Absurdists."**

Well, in this case we have the point covered, from my point of view, ha. Ok, for starters, while it is true that Jeremiah DOES show concern for his well-being in his first appearances, even sacrificing his allies in favor of saving himself, however, we later see how he begins to value less his own integrity and life. Examples of this, are:

-When he shot Selina, he dropped her gun and smiled at Bruce, perhaps expecting him to lash out at him with all her rage.

-In season 5, even though Ecco had designed him armor to protect him, Jeremiah refused to use it and instead trusted that he could survive Selina's thrusts with sheer force of will. His reason for doing this? Versimilitude is more powerful than caution. This phrase alone already indicates that Jeremiah values the impact of what he does more than his own safety.

- At Ace Chemicals, even though Bruce continues to mistreat and beat him, Jeremiah only cares that Bruce reacts disdainfully towards him, he wants to be what Bruce despises the most, and when Bruce makes it clear that Jeremiah doesn't give him shit, well, time to fuck "friendship", Jeremiah beats up Bruce and tries to kill him, throwing away everything he had worked for, just because of a narcissistic tantrum.

- Finally, in the end of the series, we see how Jeremiah remained feigning brain death for 10 years, totally indifferent to causing any type of chaos, without even bothering to go against the various mistreatments he perhaps received in Arkham Asalyum . Come on, there is a possibility that he was awake during the battle for Gotham, but given Bruce's disinterest in him, he decided to "let someone else enjoy the party." When Batman appears in Gotham City, weeks before Bruce Wayne's official return, Jeremiah is back at it with a plan to wipe the slate clean, eliminating his previous enemies to focus on his new target: A massive monster that hunts criminals. .. Impossible not to feel the most sane if everyone around you is completely crazy.

That's right, I don't think Jeremiah knew from the beginning that Batman was Bruce, in fact I suspect that he believed that the bad bat was just a meaningless urban legend created by a city in decline, he was waiting for Bruce, who he was with connected, with the purpose of killing him at the new Wayne Tower gala, in revenge for discarding his attempts to have a bond (Which implied that Bruce would give up everything he was, in favor of satisfying Jeremiah's superiority complex) and for "leave him".

Jeremiah: I was waiting for him to come home. We are united, he and I. It's the only thing he knew for sure, the only thing he knew to be true. And then he just... abandoned us. Do you know what it feels like to have the only thing you love taken from you?

Am I the only one who notices that he's basically admitting that he hates Bruce for not thinking like him? Gordon DIDN'T KNOW Bruce was Batman, and if he did know, there's no way Jeremiah would know, so in making that comment, knowing the context of that the destruction of Gotham's new building was the primary goal of his plan, the conclution is that Jeremiah atemtepted to attack Bruce and finish him. This implies that he was moving out of resentment rather than "love."

When he finally meets Batman, and discover that the one who he considerated a myth, was in fact the character on who Ra's predicted Bruce would become, he trashes all of his hook-up speech, and tries to shoot him in the head, ok, maybe he didn't want to kill him, but it's clear that he meant to hurt him, like a lot. Upon receiving the batarang in his hand, he only laughs about it, and even mocks Batman, despite the danger.

Let's keep in mind that Jeremiah very, very possibly DOES NOT KNOW about Bruce's no-kill rule, in fact he has no reason to consider it, quite the opposite:

-Bruce told Jeremiah that they were going to "get rid of his brother" the day they met. Do not catch, or stop: RID

- Ra's probably explained how Bruce had already killed him in the past.

-If we remember Ra's death in No Man's Land, we can see that Jeremiah stood up when Ra's began to disintegrate, possibly not noticing that Barbara guided Bruce, and even if he had seen it, remember that someone like Jeremiah only thinks in extremes. The fact that Bruce had not put up a fight against kill Ra's would confirm Bruce's "determination" to save Gotham in Jeremiah's eyes.

-Jeremiah sees how Bruce doesn't try to save him at Ace Chemicals, he doesn't try to stop him from falling... Of course, why would he? Jeremiah is the biggest threat to Gotham and the one who has caused him the most pain, it is logical and reasonable that he is not going to save someone who "means nothing to him" and who is also a danger to Gotham, his city that "does matter".